Q&A: Should I Store My Photo Collection in iPhoto or Elsewhere on My Computer? Or Should I Use Lightroom?
Hi Curtis,
I have recently purchased a new camera and vowed to be better organized in the photo storage and processing department. A couple of questions:
1) Someone told me I should not store my albums in iPhoto but should create picture files elsewhere on my computer. What would you suggest?
2) I am currently using Photoshop Elements to process my photos. Do you have any thoughts on Lightroom as opposed to PE?
Thanks. I look forward to reading your newsletters.
Maria Ricossa
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Maria, it takes quite a commitment to yourself to be better organized since it's not just a decision you have to make. It's also the dedication to learning new things. So good for you for getting a new start now! 🙂
Storage Location of Photos in iPhoto
I can completely understand why an experienced user of iPhoto or another photo management software might tell you to avoid keeping your photos in iPhoto. And by “in iPhoto,” I don't mean using iPhoto in general — because iPhoto is great! I mean keeping your photo files stored inside of the iPhoto photo library file.
By default, when you import photos inside, iPhoto operates kind of like an “overprotective mother.” I believe this is actually a good thing, though, and I would recommend it to anyone who isn’t an advanced user.
There are two main parts to iPhoto. There is the iPhoto application, which is stored in your “Application” folder. Then, there is the “photo library” file that is stored (by default) in your “Pictures” folder — also inside of your user folder.
What iPhoto does by default when you import a photo is that it makes a copy of your photo(s) and stores them inside of this “photo library” file (really a folder disguised as a file). iPhoto protects your photo inside of this “shell” so that you can't accidentally move them or, worse, delete your master image files.
What your friend was warning you about is the fact that once your photos are imported in this default protective manner — called “managed” — it’s then a bit more challenging to get all of your photos out so that you can use them with, say, another photo editing program.
For example, if you ever wanted to stop using a Mac and start using a different photo manager on a Windows PC, it would be difficult. It wouldn't be impossible, just difficult.
That’s because, again, your photo masters were imported as “managed” files and are being protected inside of this “photo library,” and very few programs have any kind of access inside of your library files.
The most obvious way to get all of your photos out of iPhoto so that you can, for example, start building your collection in another non-Apple photo manager like Adobe's Photoshop Elements or Lightroom is to select all of your photos in iPhoto and then export them out so that it saves another copy of each of them to folders on your desktop or another place on one of your hard drives. From there, you can re-import all of these into another program of your choice.
All of this sounds like a lot of work — kind of a mess — and I suppose it is. It's the reason I really advise people to choose their photo manager wisely from the beginning of this entire project of building your digital photo collection. It's a fork in the road that can be quite challenging to come back to.
But, the thing to keep in mind is that most users of iPhoto will never need a major “evacuation plan” like this to get all their photos out of iPhoto. Most iPhoto users are very happy with iPhoto, and the only reason they have to get photos out is when they want to share their photos with their friends or family members. In that case, iPhoto makes it really easy — you select an image, hit the share button at the bottom of the application, and then choose how you want to share it.
A Possibly Better Way to Store Your Photos in iPhoto
With all of this being said, there most certainly is another way to use iPhoto, where you are able to store all of your photos anywhere on your hard drive you would like. Yes! You read that correctly — anywhere you would like!
If you use this second method, called “referencing,” it's very important you keep in mind your master photos won’t be stored inside of a protective iPhoto library file, so it will be up to you to organize them in a good strategy of folders — like folders inside of folders, etc., and then protect them. If you move a photo accidentally, iPhoto may not be able to help you find it. And if you delete one, you could really be out of luck!
If we were comparing these methods to an automobile transmission, referencing would be a manual transmission and managed would be automatic.
Now, if you are at all confused by any of this, I would completely understand. It can be hard to grasp at first. But it's really important that you understand how it works, so I made a short video below that does a much better job of explaining it here than with just text. I originally edited this video for a post called “How to Get iPhoto to Store Your Photos Inside or Outside of the iPhoto Library (Managed vs. Referenced).”
(Problems playing video? Click here)
The most important thing for you to take away from this video is that whether or not your photos in iPhoto are “managed” or “referenced” is not decided by how the “Copy items to the iPhoto library” setting is currently set in iPhoto. It's instead determined by how this setting was set at the time the photos in question were imported into the library. And this could have happened years ago!
Some of the images in your collection can be managed, and some can be referenced — both at the same time. So, it's not an “all with one” method or “the other” kind of deal.
And sadly, at the time of writing this, iPhoto still does not have any indication — no symbol or badge — that will tell you which photos were imported in which manner. (Hint: Aperture does, though)
Let's Consider Some iPhoto Alternatives
Maria, if you have the option of using iPhoto, then this means you are using one of Apple's Mac computers. And in your second question, you also asked my opinion on using the Mac version of either Adobe's Photoshop Elements or their more advanced Lightroom application.
The photo managers I recommend for someone who is interested in building a really amazing digital photo collection to use as the primary place to store, manage, and edit all of their photos are iPhoto or Picasa (for those with basic goals), or Aperture or Lightroom (for those with advanced goals).
One of the main reasons I still don't include Photoshop Elements in this list is because it's still not a true Non-Destructive image manager. It's my understanding that even the latest version is still very “hands-on” and requires you to fully understand and rely on the use of “layers” to make edits to your photos without overwriting the master images.
There is no doubt in my mind that Lightroom is fantastic. If you were to tell me you are a semi-pro or a professional photographer who is interested in some of the advanced features that are unique to Lightroom, I would be very motivated to have you try out Lightroom.
But, since you are a Mac user, it's incredibly hard for me not to highly recommend you stay with the Apple iPhoto & Aperture dual-combo experience. Especially if there aren't any specific features exclusive to Lightroom that you have to have. There are just so many advantages that a Mac user gets by utilizing the synergy of all of Apple's software working together on their own hardware.
For example, here’s what’s so amazing about the latest versions of Apple’s iPhoto and Aperture. You can take your photo collection, either “managed” or “referenced” in iPhoto, and load it at any time in Apple’s more advanced featured application, Aperture. You can also load an Aperture library in iPhoto whenever you want.
They are now backward compatible. They are forward-compatible. However, you want to say it — you can go back and forth whenever you would like!
If you have a spouse who just wants to do a couple of basic things with your family's photos, you can still have just one photo library for your entire collection. He can load the photo library in iPhoto to do the simpler things he likes to do, and then you can load the same library file in Aperture whenever you want to do more advanced tasks. It's not only convenient and easy — it's genius!
Why a Lightroom to Aperture Switch Won't Work
So, let's say you start out with a collection you've built in Lightroom. Even though Lightroom works by always referencing all of your photos (never by managing them inside of a library file), which makes it a lot easier now to move them all into another application, all of the edits you have done, like color correction and cropping in Lightroom won’t carry over to iPhoto or Aperture if you ever decide to switch. That's because all of these non-destructive edits are stored in a database file that only Adobe's Lightroom application can read and write. (This is the big trade-off to the amazing benefits of non-destructive image managing, and for most of us, it's worth it.)
But, if you started out your collection with iPhoto, you can move to Aperture at any time you feel you are ready to learn the more advanced capabilities that it offers without losing any of your edits — these crops, color corrections, dust removal, healing “touch-ups” etc. All of these edits are stored in a database (inside a separate folder of your photo library file) that both of the Apple applications can read and write. This is one of those tremendous advantages of staying in the Apple ecosystem that I mentioned before.
Magically Turning Managed Libraries into Referenced
Something else you should know. If you start out with iPhoto and all of your photos are being “managed” — the default manner in which your photos are being protected inside of your library file — if you ever want some or even all of your photos to now be stored outside of your library file as “referenced” files, you can't with iPhoto. Whichever method they are imported in is the way they stay if you are using just iPhoto.
However, if you open the same photo library file in Aperture, with just a few clicks, you can convert one or more photos in either direction — managed or referenced. It's amazing, and it can be had for just $79!
For example, if you wanted to convert your entire “managed” collection of photos to being “referenced,” all you have to do is load your library file up in Aperture and then select all of your events (in Aperture, your events are called projects), and then you tell Aperture you want to “relocate” them to a location on one of your hard drives. Then, Aperture goes to work moving your master image files out of the (protective) library file to a folder structure of your choosing. This change is recognized by both programs. So, if you load your library back into iPhoto later, your photos will now be referenced there as well.
It’s very simple and satisfying knowing you can move your photos in and out of your “protective” library file whenever you would like.
Summary
So Maria, if you were on a Windows PC, and you showed signs of having advanced goals for your collection, I would recommend you start out with Lightroom and take your time learning it until you feel comfortable with it. If you are eventually going to go to Lightroom at some point, it would be better in many ways to start out in Lightroom, then try and move there later from Picasa down the road.
But, since you are on a Mac, and even though there is a version of Lightroom for the Mac, unless there is a feature in Lightroom that you can't live without, I would highly recommend you stick with the Apple ecosystem and continue using iPhoto. Then I would suggest you try out Aperture whenever or if ever you decide you are ready for some more advanced features.
Photoshop Elements does have a few cool editing tricks that iPhoto and Aperture don't currently do — like blending multiple shots of a group photo into one where everyone is smiling their best. So, consider using PSE whenever you have some unique edits, and it's the best tool for the job.
Maria, I hope this helps you out.
Cheers!
Curtis
Wow, Curtis, thanks so much for all the detailed advice. You made the architecture of the whole system much clearer for me.
Happy to hear about Aperture. I have not been happy with Elements and didn't quite know why. I'm getting Aperture pronto.
Thanks so much.
Regards,
Maria
If you have any additional questions after reading this, ask away in the comments below. I'll do my best to answer them for you!
Thank you for the education. My dilemma is that over the process of buying new Computors and saving files I have copies of the iPhotos and now have several iPhotos and libraries ( at different levels 8 and 9) with duplications of the photos. The libraries are growing ( from 300GB to now 800GB). What software exists ( maybe iPhoto) that would combine all these libraries and eliminate the duplicates. Goal is to have one complete library.
Thanks. Bogdan
Then would it then be safe to delete the two files on your desktop to free up space on hard drive? (I have 100GB in a folder that I don’t want taking up twice as much space if its in Library already)
Thanks! – Andrew
Hi Curtis,
I just discovered your site – great information.
I have been scanning photos since about 2000 and have since added many digital photos as well.
I have been to all the relations on both sides of the family and borrowed or scanned their family photos.
We now have just ticked over 50,000 photo. Admittedly digital photos have ramped that number up fast.
I had a bad experience with Commercial photo storage and annotation software early on and vowed to not use it again.
I have family many BW photos from 1930s/40s. Does anyone really think that any commercial software photo package will be around in 50+ years? I don’t. I want these to available to my great grandchildren.
1. Images are stored as high(est) quality JPG (Note that you Can do lossless JPG storage) or TIFF images.
2. All images files are stored in standard Windows and ISO compatible file systems.
3. All annotation and comments are in HTML (ASCII) files referencing the images
4. Images are named as numbers 1,2,3,4…50000 etc.
5. Folder structure is large enough to hold 22Gb (One BlueRay disc), 6 folders hold 50,000 images.
6. Access and display of images is done exclusively by simple HTML web pages
7. Organisation is by Family, then by date in reverse date order so latest photos appear at the top.
8. I have written a program to automate numbering the photos and building the web pages.
I attach a pic of the main family page,
9. The monthly web pages can contain any number of photos, just add more web pages
Each web page contains about 15 images with dialog/comments below each image.
10. We use a Canon 9000 scanner for photos, but now get photos from a digital camera, phone camera, whatsapp etc.
11. The simple file storage system is optimised for backup. I have backups on three hard drives, DVDs (5Gb ea),
Blue Ray discs (22Gb ea), USB Sticks (128Gb). I don’t trust cloud storage at present and I have been using computers
since 1972 and do not trust the longevity of digital storage, hence I use a variety of different media.
12. I backup regularly, including and off site backup.
13. The web site containing all 50k photos is available to my relations, password protected.
As it contains many personal photos that relatives allowed me to scan, I cannot make the web site available to the public.
Thanks for your web site, very interesting.
I have come to many of the same conclusions about resolution etc that you have, though I’m not sure about the
JPG vs TIFF file storage thing.
It’s a great thing to be able to ‘preserve our history’.
If you think that before about 1900, very few photos were taken by families and fewer survived.
I have also undertaken to create a scanned document archive as well, on similar principles, but that’s another story.
Regards,
Mike Fletcher
Mr. Fletcher, thank you for sharing your amazing story. I’m in the midst of educating myself and helping others with their backup AND archiving solutions. It’s such an unpopular niche today, unfortunately. I’ve been a computer user since my Apple Lisa 2. You and I share many commonalities, as I don’t trust modern media or cloud storage either…not for long term storage. I’ve seen the stats. I’m looking at a combo of m-disc, multiple other digital media, and prints. I’m glad to have met such a person as yourself. You should be a legend, friend. All the best. -Cliff Muncy, Tobaccoville, NC
Nice to know I’m not alone with my 50K+ family photos and I’m still scanning.
Hi Curtis,
Thank you for putting your site and tutorials together. I sure wish I had found you before the new Photos app update! Aperture is no longer available, and I believe it is just what I needed for my problem/project. BUT I am hoping that you can share some advice on what to do now.
My iPhoto library has taken up too much of the hard drive. My husband told me it is causing our massive slow down. The desktop is painfully slow to use now, so I want to fix the problem. As you discussed above, I want to move my library over to an external for long term storage. I would like to use iPhoto to manipulate and manage them. It really does most everything I want. I just need the space freed up on my desktop.
Now that Aperture is no longer in the app store…and Photos is out, can I easily move my library as described in your article, in a similar way (like Aperture). Changing the files from “managed” to “referenced”? Is that feature not available? If it is there, it has not been easy to find!
Moving the pictures around makes me nervous. I have done so in the past..pre-Mac…and found files to be corrupted or simply lost in the move. I am interested to hear your update on the issue now that “Photos” is in full swing, and Aperture is lost to us newbies.
Thank you,
Carrie Kochan
Hi Curtis,
thank you for this super clear explanation. I have been trying not to use iPhoto because I read and hear that iPhoto libraries tend to get enormous. I did the test myself, and noticed that iPhoto makes several physical copies of each image (previews, thumbnails…) inside the iPhoto library. I was just wondering how big of an impact that makes; and if the preview and thumbnail files are deleted automatically when deleting the “master” image.
Thanks,
Just found you thru an iPhoto tutorial.
“Scan Your Entire Life” – can’t believe there’s something like this – thank you – it could describe me, too.
I am also new to mac, which I got recently because it’s small for traveling.
But I already have over 120,000 (mostly scanned) images and photos already in a PC system, and I’m used to using Photoshop and Lightroom. I had no idea when I bought the mac this issue even existed. Thank you for explaining it before I got too far into the new system!
I don’t know that I want to move all those images over, even if I could.
I don’t want to have 2 systems.
So – I can use “referenced” photos on the mac, not “managed”, click off the iPhoto library copy, and eventually, I can move these photos to another system, if I understand you right.
Thank you, thank you…
I’ll be going thru the rest of your site, too.
Trish – en route on an island, downloading photos from a camera onto the mac for the first time.
You’re so welcome Trisha! Glad this could help out a new Mac user. :coffee:
And yes, you are correct. If you referenced all of your photos using iPhoto, you could at at time, move those photos to another system, or reference them using another program (even at the same time) like Picasa or Lightroom.
The only caveat is that the box that defaults to being clicked to “copy items to the iPhoto library” that we are speaking of, MUST be unselected BEFORE you import any photos into iPhoto that you want to be referenced. It’s not an all on or all off kind of thing you can decide later. The photos are made managed or referenced depending on how this box is marked before each import.
Also, referenced only works when you are importing into iPhoto from a secure “archive” safe storage medium. If you have the box unchecked but you are importing photos from a camera card, your photos will still be imported as managed — NOT referenced. This is because iPhoto knows you aren’t going to use your camera media card for long term storage to protect those photos. Instead, it knows you will delete that card clean when it gets full. So it’s not a secure storage location.
Instead, to get photos off “insecure” storage devices, don’t import them into iPhoto directly. Use the free “Image Capture” program in your applications folder to bring them in to a permanent folder on your computer’s hard drive (internal or external) first. THEN with that box unchecked, import the photos from the secure “long-term” folder into iPhoto. Then they will be referenced.
If this information is too late, and you have already improperly imported photos as managed that you wanted to be referenced, if you haven’t done edits to the photos yet (added captions, crops etc that creates extra metadata) you could export your photos out of iPhoto to secure folders somewhere on your drive, delete them in iPhoto, and then re-import them back into iPhoto as referenced. Or if you have a copy of Apple’s Aperture, you can open your library file in Aperture and turn managed photos into Referenced ones really easily. (That’s too “advanced” for iPhoto — but not for Aperture)
Thanks for explaining photo management and in plain English, nonetheless!!
Before my MAC conversion in 2007, I was a windows user and used a generic photo management software. I imported the pictures in the typical folder and subfolder hierarchy. I converted to a MAC in 2007 and used Iphoto importing new photos as “managed” files. However, there was a brief period of time that I was unfaithful to Iphoto and used an adobe product.
I now have a mess, and am looking for advise on how to consolidate. I have pictures from Windows , Iphoto (“managed”), and Adobe and still have video/photos sitting on Iphones, cameras and video cameras, an external hard drive and MAC.
If I import pictures into Iphoto, will it create duplicates? I have heard that if an Iphoto library gets to large, it slows to a crawl, so would you recommend several different libraries, maybe grouped by year?
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks again for a great site!!!
Hi Curtis,
I am converting from Windows to Mac and really getting frustrated with iPhoto. I am an advanced Windows user (20+ years IT experience), so no computing slouch, but even the most basic stuff is driving me nuts. I just took 30 pictures today and I need to upload them to a dropbox folder. I connected my iPhone, iPhoto imported them, but even though it copies the photos to a folder with the date (/Users/bryan/Pictures/iPhoto Library.photolibrary/Masters/year/month/date), they are scattered further under separate folders, all different ones (even though they were taken within the same 10 minutes).
How can I just select these photos for upload somewhere like Google Drive, or copy them to a folder, or do anything I want with them? *So* much simpler with windows, I can just select files by date/time.
Thanks in advance!
Hi Bryan,
I was a long long time Windows user myself, and converted to all Mac in 2007 I think it was. So I understand how you’re feeling now as you are going through the adjustment period. Your issue though isn’t a Mac vs. Windows issue — it’s just you may have jumped into iPhoto without understanding fully how it operates for the user.
iPhoto accomplishes a lot for “basic” users. Its meant for people that want to organize and store their photos without having to understand how and where to store their photo files on their hard drives. By default, iPhoto is setup to copy photos inside of the iPhoto library file and protect them for the user so they aren’t accidentally moved, deleted or damaged etc. In doing so, it stores them in a folder structure in this library file that really only it understands and prefers.
The interface we as users use and need to know is inside of iPhoto using the Event folders where all of the master images “live.” Then, if you want to do something with them, like get them to Google Drive, you select (highlight) the ones you want inside of the iPhoto application, and then you click File > Export and you pick a destination for these new versions. But again, this is only the default method.
You are coming from a Windows world where most everything has to be done manually, and you have to have a decent understanding of the file system, folders, and that hierarchy. iPhoto can work this way as well if you would like. It’s called “Referencing” where the default (basic) method I mentioned above is called “managed.” This allows you to keep your master photos outside of the iPhoto library like most Windows users are used to (so you don’t have to break into the protected library file and find them in the Masters folders — in a folder structure you don’t prefer)
First you need to import them from your iPhone to the computer and store them in any folder structure that you would like. iPhoto only imports and copies them into its library file, so you will need to use another program. Your Mac comes with one called Image Capture that is a basic importer if you don’t have another one installed. Then, before you import photos, make sure you have the setting inside of iPhoto’s preferences > Advanced unselected so that photos aren’t copied into iPhoto when you import them. Now select all of your photos and import them into iPhoto so that you can organize them in there anyway you would like in whatever events you choose. (You can also choose in preferences if you want events to automatically be created and split up photos into events based on the amount of days you shot the photos over etc)
I made a nice video that explains how this setting works that you should check out if you want further explanation. (It’s the video that’s above in my post here) At the beginning it covers managed, and near the end it covers referenced.
https://www.scanyourentirelife.com/iphoto-imported-photos-iphoto-library-managed-referenced/
If you are sticking with Mac, and you really want control, you want a more pro-photo application like Apple’s Aperture (they aren’t adding more features to it anymore — iPhoto either — but both will be updated to work with Yosemite so they will operate for a long time still) or Adobe’s Lightroom. Again, iPhoto is great, but it’s meant to be easy and hands off for people that aren’t in tune with what the computer is doing, like you are trained to be.
I love Aperture because not only does it handle referencing photos with even more control, I can also put events (they’re called projects though in Aperture) into folders and then put folders in folders if I would like. I can organize deep and meticulous if I want — very much like I used to do in windows. And Aperture can load an iPhoto library now, and iPhoto can load an Aperture library as well. You can go back and forth whenever you want, loading the same library file. Slick.
I just hope their new Mac Photos application (that is replacing iPhoto and Aperture) will eventually become as useful to all of us as iPhoto and Aperture has been all these years. Time will tell.
Hi Curtis,
Thank you for the thoughtful and thorough response. I’ll have to try Aperture.
Here’s my other dilemma, and I was going to turn to Google and Picasa to solve, but there are some snags there:
I need to back up all the photos of mine and my families across multiple devices to the cloud (Google’s is starting to seem easiest/most affordable, and I have all my email and docs there anyway) – should I dive deeper into Picasa instead? Can Aperture coordinate across multiple devices?
Just need to decide on the best comprehensive yet easiest solution – (I don’t want to spend a bunch of time on it, but easily want to find and share stuff as well as have it all automatically backed up across multiple devices and people (wife and I), and it actually works.
What would you recommend for me?
Gratefully,
Bryan
Bryan,
You’re welcome for the response. :beer:
As far as your new questions, do you mean back up as in copy off of and store a copy of it to protect them — like a safety backup? Or is your question more about syncing so that your photos will be accessible and editable in all places at the same time? (a very challenging feat just now becoming possible with today’s technologies)
If you mean syncing, it’s really tricky right now trying to advise what and with whom people should use for the big picture of having all of their portable and desktop devices all sync up. It’s kind of the “Wild Wild West” of syncing right now in that respect. All the big companies are fighting for our loyalty.
I read that Picasa and their Picasa Web Albums (now I think it’s called Google+ Albums) now lets you sync captions from between the desktop application and the albums live on the albums site. Which means, if this is true, family could hopefully log in and add captions to photos, and then it would sync down to your Picasa collection on your computer and update it there and vice versa.
The downside with Picasa is if you are someone with advanced goals for your collection, are you going to be satisfied dealing with the more basic feature set that Picasa offers. If you really want to do some serious work in there, you are going to want the power of a more advanced image manager (like Aperture, Lightroom or possibly another lesser known one).
Currently, Aperture doesn’t sync between all devices (nor does iPhoto for that matter). You have to use a combination of Apple’s photo stream, their iPhoto for iOS, as well as keeping your Mac’s library file in Dropbox (or their new updated iCloud coming out next month or so). The future of Apple’s syncing was shown off at their recent WWDC.
Did you by chance take a look at that 6 minutes of video that I linked to at the bottom of the last comment? If not, take a look at it so you can see Photos for Mac, which is what Apple has in store for all of us wanting to keep all of our photos in sync across all of our devices (It’s right in the middle or so of this Apple keynote speech, but it should be all queued up for you at around 1 hour 13 mins in).
http://youtu.be/w87fOAG8fjk?t=1h13m19s
Lightroom now as an iPad application for Lightroom that syncs with their desktop version of Lightroom. So Adobe is working hard to make an “all device” world for their application suite as well.
Choosing:
The tough thing is settling on a photo managing application if you are really interested in doing non-destructive photo editing. If you are just using one for organizing and viewing your photos, it’s not too difficult to move a “referenced” photo collection from something like Picasa to another program like Lightroom (as an example). But, the second you start applying edits — color corrections, cropping etc., now you are adding proprietary data to a database that is extremely useful to you as the user, as long as you stay in that “ecosystem.” The second you try and move to another, you lose the ability to undo those edits in the next photo manager. You either lose all of your edits and you start over with your original photos, or you have to export all of your photos “flattened” with all of those edits applied to them, and that means no going back from there.
That’s why I tell Apple desktop or laptop customers (Mac owners) to highly consider just sticking with iPhoto and Aperture right now (while we wait for Photos for Mac next year) if they’re already using either of them because all of their non-destructive edits are (supposedly) going to travel along to this new Photos for Mac program. And in the meantime, we can continue using iPhoto and Aperture even up until the time we all give up working in Yosemite — the last OS that these programs are going to be supported on (which could be years for some who use older OS’s).
So, it really might come down to which company do you think is going to give you the best experience for you and your wife, for the long haul? — like years. Who’s user interface do you prefer? Which company is affordable to you? Which do you trust the most with your collection? (some “cheaper” services have lots of fine print to read through in their agreement forms to see what they can and can’t do with your photos sitting on their servers)
Sorry Bryan if I didn’t give you as clear of an answer as maybe you had hoped. There are just too many variables right now out there, and I don’t know your collection well enough to even begin to push you one way or another.
Thank you, Curtis. I appreciate your insightful responses.
I did watch your video, that is what first brought me to your blog. I didn’t see a reference to the WWDC segment, but I found it here: http://goo.gl/a7a3fo – it wasn’t entirely clear to me if the sync between devices and the Mac was also automatic as it was for iPhone to iPad. What I also didn’t see was if the edits are permanent between devices or if the original remains unadulterated.
Additionally, and to answer your question, I would only like to keep my favorites or a certain time period on my Mac (or even iPhone/iPad), but have them all backed up to the cloud and can also view them from there, which it looks like Photo will do, but I’m not sure. Will it allow my wife and I to share our pictures in one place, or will we have separate iCloud accounts and have to setup special permissions to do so? Will it be easy to share photos with friends and family? Will it be easy to get pictures from my wife, kids or my collection to display on a TV (via Apple TV or other method)?
Guess I’m still going to be waiting for a comprehensive, easy-to-use solution that does it all. I’ve waited this long, perhaps I should just wait until Photo ships in early 2015?
Bryan, I am still not seeing a lot of information out there yet that gives us a good idea of the entire workflow of photos from one Apple device to another. I was pretty sure though, in one early article I read after the WWDC keynote, that it was explained the sync between the new Photos for Mac would be as automatic as with iOS devices, and that edits would be non-desctructive across all of them. But, I am having problems finding that article again to see if there was evidence of this, or if it was just speculation.
I really imagine that Apple is working on solving all of your concerns in their upcoming solution. They really are radically going about this and changing the entire way we handle photos, so it only makes sense to me they are trying to lay the foundation to remove any or most of these obstacles you mentioned. Currently they already have shared photo streams where we can invite family and friends to send photos back and forth through these streams — something I doubt too many people are aware of or have even tried using. So, I’m hopefully they are aware that it’s still been a bit too complicated and are working on ways to make this whole workflow challenge easier.
Yeah, I think waiting a little bit longer for Photos next year could be very beneficial to anyone who has enjoyed Apple’s solutions to other problems in the past. And it’s very possible there might be a little bit more discussed about “Photos” on Sept 9th in their iPhone 6 unveiling keynote. If so, it will likely be almost entirely about the iOS side of it — not the Mac. But, they still might talk a bit about the properties related to the sycing workflow of all of their products.
Hi Curtins,
Would you review your recommendation now that Apple announced end of Aperture and iPhoto? I’m a long time Aperture user and dreading switch to Lightroom. I never liked it but now I feel I’m being pushed without a choice….
Hi Danny. Curtins huh? That’s a nickname I’ve never heard before now. It’s cute. 😉 (Just joking with you)
The news hit right before my wife and I were about to leave on a long vacation, so I’ve still not produced any kind of an official post on my website explaining the transition to those who aren’t aware of it yet, and conveying my thoughts of how that’s going to affect all of us Aperture users (well all iPhoto users as well!).
I did write back a couple comments though you should check out that does a good job of highlighting my thoughts up until now with the information I’ve been able to find. The first comment is at this comment link here, and there is a link back to the original comment in it.
Bottom line is I’m of course very disappointed that Aperture is not being continued on, but, with Apple’s devotion to photography (the iPhone is still the number one camera in the world I believe), and with iPhoto AND Aperture being discontinued, I am very optimistic they are fully aware how much pressure is on them to make this Photos app a tremendous alternative for us all. But, FCPX proved that it could take a bit of time for them to get all of the “pro” feature added to it. So, we matt need to hold tight, try out Photos for a bit with new photos, but possibly keep using Aperture for our old ones until the updates come out. We’ll just have to see.
Fingers crossed Photos turns out well for all of us.
change is supposed to be good, but … what do you think? true/ not true/ good, bad? http://www.maclife.com/article/news/apple_abandons_iphoto_aperture_favor_os_x_yosemite_photos_app?utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Owned
I was finishing up packing and loading up the car for a family vacation when I just happened to refresh my favorite Mac “rumor” website to see an article like the one you linked to. What a way to start my vacation! 😥 Uggh! Well, apparently after days have passed without Apple denying these articles, I have to accept it must in fact be true.
I can’t say that I was completely surprised after watching the WWDC keynote speech this year a couple times prior. I kept wondering why Apple would create an all new (third) photo managing application as well as maintaining the prior two. But, what kept me from being confident this was a possibility was that their new Photos for Mac that they showed off didn’t seem to have any organizational method to deal with iPhoto events or Aperture projects.
It’s hard to digest sometimes that a company that makes billions of dollars, can’t update and maintain two applications as they are now, and include all of these new features like “all our photos in the iCloud.” I mean it’s not like they can’t afford to hire more developers. But, the more I read about Apple, the more I understand this isn’t how they operate. They have a vision for the best and easiest way to do things, and they will eventually get to that point whether they upset people along the way or not.
After days of thinking about it, I myself am very optimistic that Apple will eventually pull through and give us a wonderful application that most of us will love using. it’s been so long since Apple has put out major updates to iPhoto or Aperture, I’m hopeful they have actually been working on this new Photos app for some time now.
My concern however for many of us is that like another professional application they make, Final Cut Pro X, it could take a couple years for them to bring this new Photos application up to anywhere near the feature-rich state that even the “outdated” Aperture 3 is currently in. Apple seems to like having their user base look forward to things. FCPX debuted with minimal features, and it wasn’t until almost 2 years or so later before many of the features I liked using in FCP 7 was added back in a similar fashion to this newer FCPX.
This is so like Apple though isn’t it. They took away our floppy and DVD drive whether we liked it or not. They see the future their way and hope we are willing to stay with them for the ride. I personally am seldom disappointed, even if it takes me a little bit of time to adjust to their vision. And with their love of photography, even though it doesn’t appear to many that they have a love for “professional” photographers right anymore, I am still optimistic they could pull through and show us one application really can do it all.
The positive is that Aperture (and presumably iPhoto) will work as long as current OSX operation systems as well as their next Yosemite that comes out later this year, is running on your computer. So, it’s not exactly like they are telling us we can no longer use iPhoto or Aperture. But, for those of us in love with the idea of getting more and more features added to these programs we are so familiar with now, it’s downright disappointing.
I like using the latest OS and update the day Apple releases it — usually now in September. So, for me this means I have about 15 more months to keep using Aperture 3 until it’s (possibly) no longer supported on the latest version of OSX — whatever that will be called. Hopefully at that point, I will be loving what they’ve done with Photos, and all of the nice features like projects, stacks, and metadata editing will have been added into the version of Photos that has so far been demoed without it.
Thanks for a really informative article. I am new to a Mac after years using a PC – I like aspects of iPhoto but hate the “Events” that iPhoto creates – they bear no useful relation to how people take pictures. Because of this, I have been looking at alternatives that will allow me to store my photos in a meaningful way ( folders and sub-folders) – Picasa or Lightroom. After reading your article, I’m thinking Aperture sounds like the answer but wonder whether that will allow me to organise the library how I wish, without leaving all my photos “outside on the lawn” and, if I do that, how would they then be shown in iPhoto?
Hope you can understand what I’m getting at.
Thanks so much for the excellent site.
Hi Geoff, glad you liked my article (with Maria’s help).
Yes, I can totally relate. I was a long time Microsoft Windows user, and then switched over to the Mac in about 2007. I was using Picasa on my PC up until the switch, so I can relate to how your brain works and wants to organize — the folder in folder system.
iPhoto is designed (currently) to be as easy as possible for the average user. And many of them are beginners. The idea of putting events in folders might be too much for many of them. But, I too wanted folders badly, so I bought Aperture 2 (at the time) quickly!
Times are changing though, and now that iPhoto can load libraries made in Aperture, iPhoto has had to evolve. What I mean specifically, is if I load one of my Aperture-made libraries in iPhoto, that has folders inside of folders, with events inside of them (they are called projects in Aperture, not events), then something amazing happens. iPhoto will create a whole new little area on the left sidebar called “Events,” and it will show you your folders with events inside! (See image below for simplified example)
I just tried to reproduce this in iPhoto alone, and I couldn’t make it work. So apparently, as of right now, iPhoto (v.9.5.1) will still not let you nest events inside of folders, but it will recognize them if you used Aperture to create this structure. The next version of iPhoto could be different though. This could be signs that both Aperture and iPhoto are evolving and they want them to be more on par together.
When you say “Outside in the lawn,” are you referring to where you store your master images? (managed or referenced) Or do you just mean metaphorically how much at “risk” they are using one program over another?
It’s hard to hide my love affair with Aperture. I do a fairly horribly job at it. It’s just so good at organizing photos. With my scanned photos, I have a folder for every decade, then a folder for every year inside of that, and then a project (event) for every decent sized “experience” we have photos for inside of those. I am very OCD with folder structure and organization, and haven’t found anything I can’t do organization-wise with Aperture. The fact that I can now open up my Aperture-made library in iPhoto if I ever wanted to now, is just gravy!
Long story shorter, I think if you like everything I’ve said so far about Aperture, you will love it as well. :beer:
Grate information, Curtis.
How do you import photos into Lightroom (from iPhoto)?
The process of moving from iPhoto to Lightroom is “messy” like I mentioned in this post. If you haven’t made any non-desrtructive edits (crops, color corrections etc) to any of your photos, OR you don’t care about losing any of them, then the process becomes less painful. But, it’s still not fun and easy like it now has become going from iPhoto to Aperture.
Basically the process is exporting out all of your photos from iPhoto, into folders somewhere on your computer where you have additional room, and then re-importing them back into Lightroom. You will have to make the decision whether you want to export them out in their original form (the state they were at the time of import without any edits), or to keep your edits you’ve made in iPhoto and have your new “edited” (flattened) versions be exported out with all of your changes applied. This loss of control over all of your non-destructive edits is the part I find very troublesome when making the decision whether to move from one to another.
The best way, like I spoke about in more detail in the post, is if all of your photos aren’t currently being referenced in iPhoto, to use Aperture to relocate all of them out of your library file to your hard drive. This will maintain your organizational “folder” structure of events that you built up in iPhoto to this point. Now, when you re-import all of these photos into Lightroom, this same structure will be maintained (even though all of your non-destructive edits won’t be). But the advantage you’ve gained now is that your entire photo collection will be referenced by iPhoto, Aperture AND Lightroom now. So you can use any of these programs that you would like and still access this same set of photos stored in the place of your choosing on your computer’s hard or solid state drives.